Sunday, May 4, 2025

ARP351 Ratification, First Steps

Last week, we covered the end of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia in September 1787.  We left off with the delegates signing the draft Constitution and preparing to go home.

Farewell Parties

Before we leave Philadelphia, I want to say a few things about a few parties.  The delegates worked six days a week during the convention, and spent most of their evenings, socializing either in public taverns or in someone’s home.  Because they had taken an oath of secrecy, they tended to remain with each other in the evenings to talk about various issues at the convention, without involving any outsiders.

Confederation Congress at City Hall, NY
Occasionally though, some delegates would attend outside functions.  George Washington was a particularly popular guest.  Shortly after arriving in Philadelphia in May, Washington spent time dining with members of the Society of the Cincinnati, who were wrapping up their national meeting about the time the Federal Convention was getting started. 

Benjamin Franklin hosted quite a few dinners, as did Robert Morris.  It was at one of these parties that a famous bet took place.  

Maryland delegate James McHenry recorded an incident at a party toward the end of the Convention.  Alexander Hamilton was hanging out with Robert Morris and Governeur Morris.  Hamilton, who had been a very close aide to Washington during the war, told the men that Washington never allowed any man to be familiar with him.  By that, he meant, act in a casual and friendly way.  Governeur called BS on Hamilton and said that among gentlemen, there was always the ability to be friendly and casual.

So Hamilton made a bet with Morris “If you will, at the next reception evenings, gently slap him on the shoulder and say, 'My dear General, how happy I am to see you look so well!” then Hamilton would buy him dinner for him and a dozen of his friends.”  It could be that Morris was hesitant to take the bet until Hamilton said * oh yeah, I triple dog dare you! *

“A few days later, the men were at a party with Washington, Gouverneur Morris entered, bowed, shook hands, laid his left hand on Washington's shoulder, and said, 'My dear Gen­eral, I am very happy to see you look so well!' Washington withdrew his hand, stepped suddenly back, fixed his eye on Morris for several minutes with an angry frown, until the latter retreated abashed, and sought refuge in the crowd."  Hamilton paid off his bet, but Morris later noted his mortification and said that, although he had won the bet, he had wished he had never made it.

This is not to say that Washington did not enjoy a good party.  The weekend before the Convention ended, Washington attended a farewell party at City Tavern thrown by his friends in the Philadelphia Regiment of Light Horse.  Many of these men were veteran Continental Officers that Washington knew from the war.

The bar bill from that party had achieved some fame of its own.  According to the bill, the men drank 54 bottles of Madiera wine, 60 bottles of Claret 22 bottles of hard cider, as well as many more of whiskey, beer, punch, cigars, etc. - with only 55 men in attendance.  That meant multiple bottles of booze for each guest.  The bill also included a charge for broken glassware, as well as even more alcohol for the twelve musicians who were hired for the night.  The total cost of the party, over 89 pounds sterling, would be over $20,000 in today’s inflation adjusted currency.

A few days later, Washington attended another party at City Tavern, following the signing, where the delegates from the convention bade farewell to each other.

Delivering the Constitution

With the festivities behind them, the delegates headed home.  On the night the final version was signed, printers worked overnight to publish 500 copies of the final document.  One of the printers was John Dunlap, who had printed the Declaration of Independence on the night it was finalized, and who was also an attendee at the party at City Tavern with Washington and the soldiers of the Philadelphia Light Horse.

Many delegates brought copies of the Constitution directly from the convention directly to various state officials or other important leaders.  Washington personally mailed copies to Thomas Jefferson in France, as well as his old friend the Marquis de Lafayette.

Even with the convention at an end, Washington observed his promise of secrecy, apologizing to the Marquis that he could not comment on the debates.  Washington told his friend that he considered the final product “a Child of fortune, to be fostered by some and buffited by others.”  Washington said he would not say anything for or against it and simply said the document would speak for itself.  Washington headed for home the day after the Convention completed its business.  

During his trip home, he had to cross an abandoned bridge in Maryland over a flooded river.  The bridge collapsed as his carriage crossed the bridge, sending it crashing into the river.  Fortunately, Washington and his travelling companion, John Blair, had exited the carriage before it had attempted the crossing.  Washington continued home.  

Like many, Washington had his concerns about the document.  During the Convention, he wrote to Hamilton, who had left for a short time in July saying “I almost dispair of seeing a favourable issue to the proceedings of the Convention, and do therefore repent having had any agency in the business.”

By the end of the Convention though, believed that it was the best they could do, and that the alternative to ratification was worsening anarchy under the Articles.  While Washington was not the most outspoken advocate of the final document, he most definitely supported its ratification and privately encouraged others to move forward with making it the basis of the new federal government.

The printed copy that was circulated immediately after the convention included the constitution itself, the letter to the Confederation Congress, and additional resolutions on ratification.  All three were signed by Washington.  The Convention Secretary, William Jackson, carried copies of the documents to New York to deliver to the Confederation Congress.  

Hopefully, most of us are familiar with the preamble to the constitution, which tries to outline its purpose.  But the letter to Congress, which also received a unanimous vote of the delegates and was signed by Washington, is often forgotten.  I think it gives great insight into the delegates’ views on the importance of the proposed constitution.  It’s a short letter, so I’ll read it in full:

Sir,

We have now the honor to submit to the consideration of the United States in Congress assembled, that Constitution which has appeared to us the most adviseable.

The friends of our country have long seen and desired, that the power of making war, peace, and treaties, that of levying money and regulating commerce, and the correspondent executive and judicial authorities should be fully and effectually vested in the general government of the Union: But the impropriety of delegating such extensive trust to one body of men is evident-Hence results the necessity of a different organization.

It is obviously impracticable in the federal government of these states, to secure all rights of independent sovereignty to each, and yet provide for the interest and safety of all: Individuals entering into society, must give up a share of liberty to preserve the rest. The magnitude of the sacrifice must depend as well on situation and circumstance, as on the object to be obtained. It is at all times difficult to draw with precision the line between those rights which must be surrendered, and those which may be reserved; and on the present occasion this difficulty was encreased by a difference among the several states as to their situation, extent, habits, and particular interests.

In all our deliberations on this subject we kept steadily in our view, that which appears to us the greatest interest of every true American, the consolidation of our Union, in which is involved our prosperity, felicity, safety, perhaps our national existence. This important consideration, seriously and deeply impressed on our minds, led each state in the Convention to be less rigid on points of inferior magnitude, than might have been otherwise expected; and thus the Constitution, which we now present, is the result of a spirit of amity, and of that mutual deference and concession which the peculiarity of our political situation rendered indispensible.

That it will meet the full and entire approbation of every state is not perhaps to be expected; but each will doubtless consider, that had her interest been alone consulted, the consequences might have been particularly disagreeable or injurious to others; that it is liable to as few exceptions as could reasonably have been expected, we hope and believe; that it may promote the lasting welfare of that country so dear to us all, and secure her freedom and happiness, is our most ardent wish.

It was then signed by George Washington and noted it was by the unanimous order of the Convention.

The third document included with the letter and the Constitution itself were the unanimous resolutions of the Convention on what should be done with the proposed document.

It resolved that the constitution should be laid before the Confederation Congress, then submitted to the states.  It did not request that Congress vote on the document, endorse it, or do anything else.  It was to be a simple intermediary to distribute the document to the states.  Each state legislature should then call a convention of the people to ratify the document and then give notice to Congress of the state’s approval or disapproval.

The convention further resolved that as soon as nine states have ratified the constitution, that the Congress should fix a day on which electors, appointed by the states, to vote for a president.  It would be up to the states to schedule elections for Senators and Representatives.

After the electors voted, they would present these votes to the Confederation Congress.  The Congress would simply hold the votes until the newly elected Senators and Representatives convened to count the votes and certify the election.  At that point, the new government would take the reigns of power and the Confederation Congress would simply dissolve and disappear.

It was pretty gutsy that this convention, which had been formed on the premise of recommending amendments to the Articles of Confederation, came back with an entirely new government and even provided the instructions on how to bring it into existence.  It then essentially ordered the Confederation Congress to comply and to destroy itself in favor of a new government, implemented on the terms spelled out by the Convention.

It was probably only the fact that the most respected leaders in the country had done this, that it was given the deference that it received.  That, and the national consensus that the Articles of Confederation were failing, made its members willing to go along with the Convention’s resolutions.

Confederation Congress 

The Confederation Congress had been poorly attended over the summer, in part due to the fact that nearly one-third of its members were serving at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia. By the time the Convention Secretary, William Jackson, arrived in New York on September 20, to deliver the Constitution to Congress, four of the delegates that had signed the document had beat him there.  More arrived over the next week, when Congress began debating what to do with the proposed document.  There were only eleven state delegations present.  Maryland only had one delegate in Congress.  Two were required for the state to cast a vote. Rhode Island, which was the only state not to send delegates to the Convention, had also not sent delegates to Congress.  Rhode Island did send a note to Congress saying it had refused to send delegates to the convention out of a “fear… of making innovations on the Rights and Liberties of the Citizens at large.”

Delegates to the Confederation Congress were not sure what to do.  They had supported a  Convention to recommend amendments to the Articles of Confederation.  This was an entirely new document.  Further, the document called on the states to ratify it, not the Confederation Congress.

Some delegates questioned whether the Convention had the authority to do this and whether the Congress needed to do anything at all since the document clearly wasn’t asking them to make amendments to the Articles.  There was some debate as to whether the Confederation Congress should make its own suggested changes to the proposed document before forwarding to the states.  They also had the option to endorse or reject the document in its entirety.

James Madison had to rush to New York because his Virginia delegation was evenly divided on whether to support the constitution.  He was the tie breaking vote in favor.  Madison then fought to shut down proposals to have the Confederation Congress suggest changes to the documents.  Many states were already considering the original proposal.  If Congress made changes, then there would be two different documents to consider, making ratification far more complicated.

The constitution was read aloud in Congress on September 20th, the day it arrived.  Congress then scheduled a date one week later, Wednesday, September 26, to consider the constitution.  Congress knew that this was coming.  Although the debates at the convention were secret, delegates who served on both bodies made sure Congress had some idea when it could expect the final product.  

Back in mid-August, the President of Congress, Arthur St. Clair, instructed all states to make sure they had at least two delegates present by September 26.  Rhode Island, which blew off the entire convention, also did not bother to send delegates to Congress.  All other states had at least two delegates present, except Maryland which had only one.

Quite a few of the more active convention delegates who were no longer in Congress, also traveled to New York to be part of the discussion.  These included Gouverneur  Morris and Alexander Hamilton, who both lived in New York, as well as Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, and John Rutledge of South Carolina.

Interestingly, Congress did not record any of their debates.  The records for those days simply note that Congress was in session, that there was a motion to transmit the Constitution to the states, then on September 28, the notes reproduce the Constitution itself and the fact that Congress was transmitting it to the states.

Unlike the Convention, the Confederation Congress did not usually act in secrecy.  Its proceedings were usually covered by the newspapers.  Despite the importance of this issue, there were no newspaper reports of the debates.  Most of what we know of the debates comes from New York Delegate Melancton Smith, who kept notes, and from letters written by other delegates who were present.  But the public at the time remained in the dark.

Dissenters like Richard Henry Lee of Virginia argued that it was absurd that Congress could not make any changes to a document that was supposed to be a list of recommended changes for Congress.  Lee, and Nathan Dane of Massachusetts were two of the most outspoken critics in Congress.  They saw the Convention’s legitimacy, only as an advisory committee to Congress, not an independent power that was bypassing Congress.  

To these men, this was a power grab.  The Articles required that major changes had to be unanimous.  This was to prevent sovereign states from being forced to cede power against its will.  The Convention was now suggesting that a group of nine states could implement an entirely new government.  Even if it wanted to do so, Congress could not endorse this plan unless all thirteen states agreed.

Given the fact that 10 of the 33 delegates present in New York had been delegates to the Convention, and given the general view that the Confederation Congress was a disaster and that speedy ratification as necessary, the majority voted not to amend, or even debate, the contents of  the proposed Constitution.  

Nationalists, like Madison, wanted Congress to endorse the new Constitution. That, of course, brought up the debate that members should be able to criticize parts of the proposed Constitution, and raise their objections.  Lee proposed some pretty popular amendments, like  guarantees for freedom of religion and the press, the right to a jury trial and independent judges, restrictions on a standing army in times of peace, protections against excessive bail, fines, cruel and unusual punishment, unreasonable searches and seizures, etc.  How could any of these basic protections be objectionable?  Why not add them?

No one objected to these protections on the merits, but for the federalists, making any changes, no matter how agreeable, would derail the process.  Madison compared the Convention to another house in the government.  If the Confederation made changes to the document, then it would have to be resubmitted to the Convention.  That would be impossible since the Convention already dissolved.  The document hammered out through considerable compromises.  Unravelling all of that would tear all that apart and effectively end this process.

Others like Rufus King said that they all realized the Articles of Confederation were not working.  That is why the states called for this convention in the first place.  The states are the sovereign entities that stand for the will of the people.  It should be up to the people of the states to decide whether this proposed constitution, as written by the convention, is worthy of ratification.  If the people don’t like it, they will reject it.  It’s not up to Congress to decide that for them.  It’s Congress’ job to transmit the proposal to the people for their consideration.

In the end, a majority of all state delegations present supported a measure to transmit the proposed constitution to the states without comment or alternation.  Total debate on the topic took only three days. On September 28, the Confederation Congress sent the proposed Constitution to the states.  They did not recommend any changes and expressed no public views on it, in whole or in part.  Congress considered its work on the matter complete.

Next week, we will take a look at how the states reacted to the proposed Constitution.

- - -

Next Episode 352 First States Ratify the Constitution (coming soon)

Previous Episode 350 Signing the Constitution

 Contact me via email at mtroy.history@gmail.com

 Follow the podcast on X (formerly Twitter) @AmRevPodcast

 Join the Facebook group, American Revolution Podcast 

 Join American Revolution Podcast on Quora 
 
Discuss the AmRev Podcast on Reddit

American Revolution Podcast Merch!

T-shirts, hoodies, mugs, pillows, totes, notebooks, wall art, and more.  Get your favorite American Revolution logo today.  Help support this podcast.  https://merch.amrevpodcast.com


American Revolution Podcast is distributed 100% free of charge. If you can chip in to help defray my costs, I'd appreciate whatever you can give.  Make a one time donation through my PayPal account. You may also donate via Venmo (@Michael-Troy-20).


Click here to see my Patreon Page
You can support the American Revolution Podcast as a Patreon subscriber.  This is an option making monthly pledges.  Patreon support will give you access to Podcast extras and help make the podcast a sustainable project.

An alternative to Patreon is SubscribeStar.  For anyone who has problems with Patreon, you can get the same benefits by subscribing at SubscribeStar.

Help Support this podcast on "BuyMeACoffee.com"


Visit the American Revolution Podcast Bookshop.  Support local bookstores and this podcast!





Signup for the AmRev Podcast Mail List

* indicates required

Further Reading

Websites

“From George Washington to Alexander Hamilton, 10 July 1787,” Founders Online, National Archives, https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/04-05-02-0236

Letter of the President of the Federal Convention, Dated September 17, 1787, to the President of Congress, Transmitting the Constitution. https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/translet.asp

The Constitutional Convention of 1787: A Revolution in Government https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/white-papers/the-constitutional-convention-of-1787-a-revolution-in-government

The Constitutional Convention of 1787: A Day by Day Account: https://www.nps.gov/inde/learn/historyculture/stories-constitutionalconvention.htm

Franklin closing speech to the convention: https://archive.csac.history.wisc.edu/assessments_64.pdf

Free eBooks
(from archive.org unless noted)

Secret Proceedings and Debates of the Convention Assembled at Philadelphia, in the Year 1787, Richmond; Wilbur Curtiss, 1839. 

Brant, Irving James Madison: Father of the Constitution, 1787-1800. Bobbs-Merrill Co. 1950 (borrow only). 

Donovan, Frank R. Mr. Madison’s Constitution: The Story Behind the Constitutional Convention, New York: Dodd, Mead & Co. 1965 (borrow only) 

Farrand, Max The Framing of the Constitution of the United States, Yale Univ. Press, 1913. 

Farrand, Max (ed) The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787Vol. 1Vol. 2, and Vol 3, Yale Univ. Press, 1911.  

Ford, Worthington, Chauncey The Federal Constitution in Virginia, 1787-1788. Cambridge: University Press, 1903. 

Jameson, J. Franklin Studies in the History of the Federal Convention of 1787, Washington: Government Printing Office, 1903. 

Madison, James Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787, Ohio Univ. Press, 1966. 

McMaster, John Bach (ed) Pennsylvania and the Federal Constitution: 1787-1788, Historical Society of Pennsylvania, 1888. 

Meigs, William M. The Growth of the Constitution in the Federal Convention of 1787, Philadelphia: J.B. Lippincott Co. 1900. 

Richardson, Hamilton P. The Journal of the Federal Convention of 1787 Analyzed, San Francisco: Murdock Press, 1899. 

Scott, James B. James Madison's notes of debates in the Federal convention of 1787, New York: Oxford Univ. Press, 1918. 

Books Worth Buying
(links to Amazon.com unless otherwise noted)*

Amar, Akhil Reed America’s Constitution: A Biography, Random House 2005. 

Beeman, Richard R. Plain, Honest Men: The Making of the American Constitution, Random House, 2009. 

Bowen, Catherine Drinker Miracle at Philadelphia: The Story of the Constitutional Convention, Little, Brown & Co. 1966 (borrow at archive.org).

Collier, Christopher Decision in Philadelphia: The Constitutional Convention of 1787, Random House, 1986 (borrow at archive.org).

Morris, Richard B. Witnesses at the Creation: Hamilton, Madison, Jay and the Constitution, Holt, Rinehart & Winston, 1985. 

Rossiter, Clinton 1787: The Grand Convention, Macmillan Co. 1966 (borrow on archive.org).

Smith, Page The Constitution: A Documentary and Narrative History, Morrow Quill, 1978. 

Stewart, David O. The Summer of 1787: The Men Who Invented the Constitution, Simon & Schuster, 2007. 

* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.


Sunday, April 27, 2025

AR-SP31 From Trenton to Yorktown, with John Maass

The discussion features an interview with John Moss, author of From Trenton to Yorktown: Turning Points of the Revolutionary War, about his book and the key moments he identifies as turning points in the American Revolutionary War.

The conversation begins with Moss explaining that his book focuses on specific decisive military events that significantly altered the trajectory of the conflict toward American victory. He defines a turning point as a battle, campaign, or siege that results in a significant change altering the war's outcome. He emphasizes that his selection of turning points is intended to be provocative and encourage discussion.

The host raises the evacuation of Boston as a potential turning point. Moss explains that while significant for the Americans, providing them time to prepare for the New York campaign, it ultimately didn't change the trajectory toward American victory, especially considering the subsequent British successes in New York. He notes that the British evacuation benefited them strategically as well.

The first turning point discussed in detail is the "Ten Crucial Days" encompassing Washington's crossing of the Delaware, and the Battles of Trenton and Princeton. Moss highlights the dire situation of the Continental Army before these battles, with dwindling numbers, expiring enlistments, and declining morale. He argues that these victories were a strategic reboot, forcing the British to retract their forces in New Jersey and boosting American morale, enlistments, and confidence in Washington's leadership. The British commander, William Howe, even realized after these defeats that the war would not be a quick victory.

The second turning point is the Saratoga Campaign. Moss attributes the British failure to the difficult terrain, divided command, and poor communication. The British operated on exterior lines and lacked unity of effort. The American strategy, while not always involving set-piece battles, effectively prevented the British forces from linking up and securing Albany. The victory at Saratoga was crucial because it led to French involvement in the war, providing the Americans with much-needed naval support and resources. Moss considers Saratoga the most important turning point due to this foreign alliance.

The third turning point discussed is the winter encampment at Valley Forge. Moss argues its significance lies in the military transformation of the Continental Army under the training of Baron von Steuben, improving discipline and battlefield maneuvers. Additionally, Valley Forge was a political turning point where Washington solidified his leadership and overcame challenges to his command from Congress and other generals through strategic engagement and communication.

The fourth turning point is the Battle of Guilford Courthouse during the Southern Campaign. Although technically a British victory, it was very costly for Cornwallis, leading him to retreat and eventually abandon North Carolina. This effectively gave the Americans control of North Carolina and altered Cornwallis's strategy, leading him to Virginia.

The fifth and final turning point is the Siege of Yorktown. The combined American and French forces, with crucial support from the French Navy, trapped and forced the surrender of a significant British army. This decisive defeat led to the fall of the North government in Britain and ultimately compelled the British to negotiate peace.

During a question-and-answer session, Moss clarifies that his book focuses on the American theater and the impact on American victory, thus not delving into global turning points for the British, French, and Spanish. He also discusses the faulty British strategy at Saratoga, highlighting the lack of a clear plan after a potential link-up and the logistical challenges. Finally, he addresses the question of Britain's last best chance to win the war, suggesting that a more decisive victory by Howe at Brandywine could have severely weakened the Continental Army. However, he also points out that by late 1780 and 1781, even the Americans feared a diplomatic settlement that would leave Britain in control of significant portions of the colonies.

- - -

Order the book: From Trenton to Yorktown: Turning Points of the Revolutionary War, by John Maass

More books by John Maass 

To receive invitations to future live events, join my mailing list, https://mailchi.mp/d3445a9cd244/american-revolution-podcast-by-michael-troy

or become a member on Patreon.com: https://www.patreon.com/amrevpodcast


Sunday, April 20, 2025

ARP350: Signing the Convention


For the past few weeks we have covered the Constitutional convention in Philadelphia, primarily the powers of Congress, that made up Article I and the powers of the presidency, laid out in Article II.  This week, we’ll go through all the rest.

Judiciary

The final branch of government to consider was the judiciary.  The Virginia plan called for a judiciary to be chosen by the legislature and to hold offices during good behavior.  The New Jersey plan called for a federal court to be chosen by the executive, but did not see the need for trial courts.

Signing the Constitution
In debate, the delegates generally agreed by consensus that there should be a court to hear certain matters.  Some delegates opposed the idea of creating inferior courts, arguing that state courts could handle most cases, and that needed appeals could then go to the federal Supreme Court.  Roger Sherman of Connecticut,, John Mason of Virginia, and John Rutledge of South Carolina spoke in favor of leaving trials to the state courts, with only an appeal to the Supreme court.   Nationalists like Madison, however, wanted federal courts to try issues involving federal law. The convention punted on this issue, establishing a Supreme Court, but leaving it up to the US Congress to decide what inferior courts, if any, should be established.

After some debates, the delegates determined that federal courts would have jurisdiction over issues that involved federal treaties, collection of federal revenue, and impeachments of federal officers.  They would also handle admiralty cases and cases where a foreigner was a party to the case.

Later, the delegates took away the power of trying impeachments, leaving that to Congress.  They also added that the federal courts would handle cases that involved disputes between states.  

The selection of judges was also a matter of debate.  Although Madison’s Virginia plan initially proposed judges be selected by the legislature, the convention rejected that idea pretty decisively early on.  Madison then pivoted his arguments at the convention toward giving that appointment power to the president.  This ended up being included in the larger debate over the appointment of executive branch officials.  In the end, judicial appointments ended up being the same as other appointment: the president would appoint and the Senate would confirm.

In the colonial era, many judges were appointed by crown authorities, and sat at the pleasure of those authorities.  Most Americans did not like that practice since it made judges dependent on those who could remove them.  In fact, one of the reasons for breaking with Great Britain in the Declaration of Independence “[the king] has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.”

To help protect judicial independence from political leaders, the convention opted to give judges lifetime tenure.  They gave some consideration to judges having a term of office, but the general consensus was that judges might try to curry favor if they had to be reappointed at some time.  Delegates also explicitly added that judicial salaries could not be reduced during their tenure.  If you could reduce a judge’s pay to almost nothing, it was the same as firing him as most could not afford to remain as judges without pay.

John Dickinson of Pennsylvania proposed giving the executive the ability to remove judges, subject to some confirmation by Congress.  Sherman supported this.  But several others, who had served as judges, men like Rutledge, and John Randolph of Virginia, argued that the power to remove judges for political reasons would destroy judicial independence.  In the end, the convention decided that removal of judges had to be only for the same standards as removing the president, that is issues of treason, corruption, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors.  Removal would also require a two-thirds vote in the Senate to prevent factional majorities from misusing the impeachment process.

James Wilson of Pennsylvania advocated to give judges some power to review new laws.  In Britain, a Council of jurists could block a new law from taking effect.  This would ensure that all three branches had some say in laws before they went into effect.  Nationalists like Madison disagreed.  Judges were supposed to be arbiters of the law.  If they had a say in making the laws, that would bias them when cases questioning the law came before the courts.

When I talked about presidential powers last week, I neglected to talk about veto authority.  Much of the veto discussion involved either using judges or some special council to review and veto laws.  In the end, that power was given to the president.  Many argued that a veto should be absolute.  The King in Britain had the power to veto any law and that would be the end of the discussion.  Although several delegates, including Wilson, Hamilton, and Morris, supported this absolute veto, Opponents argued that it gave the president too much power.  They allowed Congress to override a veto with a two-thirds vote in both houses.  So if Congress overwhelmingly supported a measure, the president could not stand in the way.

Delegates also debated the idea of judicial review.  Should judges be able to strike down an unconstitutional law?  Gouverneur Morris and Madison, as well as others argued that it had to be an inherent power of judges.  Madison used the example of ex post facto laws, that is making something a crime and then convicting a person who committed the act before it was a crime.  The Constitution clearly barred that.  If Congress tried to create an ex post facto law, the court certainly could not enforce it.

Others, like John Dickinson, argued against this power.  It could be subject to abuse, giving judges an effective veto power of all laws. In the end, the final language did not explicitly address the question either way.  However, only a couple of delegates ever spoke against judges having this authority.

For the most part, the convention did not get into the details of defining any crimes.  The one exception to this was treason.  Delegates feared that factions would arise so that those in the majority would accuse their rivals of treasons.  Under British law, treason could mean a whole range of things that generally displeased the king.  The framers tried to avoid that by explicitly defining treason as making war against the United States or giving aid or comfort to its enemies.  At Benjamin Franklin’s suggestion, conviction would require testimony of at least two witnesses or a confession in open court.  Further, punishment of treason would only apply to the individual, not his family, another break from British custom.

Full Faith and Credit

So, the three branches of government were set up in the first three articles of the Constitution, at least that was how the Committee of Detail set up the powers.  There were still other things that needed to be covered. Article IV would cover how states interacted with each other.  One was a requirement to give full faith and credit to decisions by other state governments.  This actually came from the Articles of Confederation which required full faith.  

The Constitution also guaranteed that citizens would be entitled to the privileges and immunities of citizens in all of the states. The fourth article also raised the issue of a person charged with a crime in one state and who fled to another. The Committee of Detail inserted this, nothing that such a person would have to be returned to the original state for trial.  The New Jersey plan had included something similar, but it hadn’t really received much of any debate during the convention.

Once inserted however, it touched off a debate that had been avoided through much of the convention: slavery.  In 1787, only a few states had begun the process of ending slavery in their states.  But several states in the south, particularly South Carolina, were nowhere near ready to give up the institution, and wanted to make sure that the Constitution would not interfere with slavery.

Two delegates from South Carolina, Pierce Butler, and Charles Cotesworth Pickney, moved that slaves or indentured servants who fled bondage to another state must also be returned to their masters.

Delegates from free states were not ready to use the Constitution to outlaw slavery altogether.  They knew that would blow up the convention and prevent probably all of the southern states from remaining in the Union.  Even so, James Wilson of Pennsylvania objected to a constitutional provision which meant that the federal government, and possibly other state governments, would have to spend money and resources trying to return slaves.  The government didn’t do that for horses or cows that fled their owners.  Why would it have to do that for slaves?

In the end though, the southern delegates were adamant, near the end of August, Butler moved to insert a clause that anyone held to service or labor in one state, and who escaped, shall be delivered up to the person claiming that service or labor.  The Convention agreed to this clause without a vote.  There is speculation it was part of a larger compromise on other matters added on that same day.

The delegates also included a clause allowing congress the authority to admit new states based on whatever criteria they wanted, but did make clear that new states could not be taken from jurisdictions of existing states unless that state agreed to the matter.  This was pretty uncontroversial, considered first in early June and never got much debate or dissent.  To the extent there was some argument, it was mostly over the claims to western lands that some larger states might assert.  Delegates eventually decided it would be up to others to decide the legitimacy of those claims.

They also added a clause allowing Congress to make laws for US territories that were not part of any other state.  This was already what the Confederation Congress was doing in the Northwest Territory.  They just had to add a proviso that this could not be used to prejudice any claims of territory by the US or its states.

The delegates also debated the insertion of a clause that the federal government would ensure that each state maintained a republican form of government and protected the existing laws of each state.  Gouverneur Morris objected, raising concerns about some of Rhode Island’s laws that seemed to threaten basic property rights.  Should the US government protect such laws?  

In the end, delegates changed the wording to ensure that each state did have a republican form of government, meaning one elected by the people, and not a monarch or oligarchy.  They left out any protection of existing state laws, but did guarantee protection to each state against foreign invasion or domestic violence.  This was probably in direct response to the recent Shays rebellion in Massachusetts, and the inability of the Confederation Congress to do anything to restore order.  Elbridge Gerry asked for a provision that the state government had to give permission for federal intervention.  After some debate, the delegates agreed.

Amendments

The Convention also tackled the subject of amending the Constitution.  The Articles of Confederation had required the unanimous consent of all states to make any such changes.  That had proven impractical..

The Virginia plan had proposed that all amendments be proposed by the national legislature.  As representatives of the people, this made sense to many.  This didn’t get much debate until late August, after most other issues were resolved.  When it did, some delegates argued that it should not be Congress, but rather the states, that would decide when a Constitutional Amendment was necessary.  A resolution by John Rutledge called for the application of two-thirds of the state legislatures to call for a new convention to discuss changes to the Constitution.  That was essentially how this Convention had come to be.

During debate in September the Committee of Style argued about who should be able to propose amendments.  Gerry and Hamilton wanted Congress to have the ability to propose amendments.  After all, they were the ones working under the Constitution and would mostly keenly feel the effects of any flaws.  Others were concerned that if the states were suffering, the federal Congress might not be willing to make the necessary changes.

IN the end, the Convention agreed to include two possible ways to propose Amendments.  One was with a two-thirds vote in both houses of Congress.  The other would be if two-thirds of the states called for a convention to propose amendments.  Once an amendment was proposed, at least two-thirds of the states must consent to it.  Given some concerns about minorities being overruled, this was changed to require approval by three-quarters of the states.

There was still some concern.  Smaller states remained hesitant that Amendments might be used someday to take away equal representation in the Senate.  Eventually, the convention agreed that no state could ever be deprived of equal suffrage in the Senate without its consent

Another issue by the South Carolina delegation was concerned about federal power to prevent the importation of slaves.  They wanted protection against that federal power.  The overwhelming majority of delegates disagreed.  That was an issue that would be left up to Congress.  South Carolina, however, was adamant.  In the end, they agreed that Congress would have no power to block the import of slaves for the next twenty years.

Debts

The Convention also debated the repayment of debts.  The Virginia Plan had included a resolution that the new Congress would take on all the engagements of the Confederation Congress.

There was little debate that the new government should continue to repay the war debts incurred by the Continental Congress.  After all, the need to find a way to repay those debts was one of the reasons many delegates wanted this new government.  

There was, however, some debate over whether the new government should assume all the war debts that the individual states.  In August Rutledge put forward a motion that would allow the government to take on those debts.  A large faction of delegates, however, opposed the measure.  Many states had made great efforts to pay down their debts already.  Gerry made the point that states with relatively small remaining debts did not want to have the burden of paying down debts for states that had not made such an effort yet.  Butler objected to paying the debts at all.  He noted that speculators had purchased most of these notes, and he had not interest in paying off what he called “blood suckers.”  

Although not in the record, Hamilton, a strong supporter of assuming state debts, spoke with Madison about the question outside the convention.  Hamilton later told people that Madison agreed that the government should assume state debts, but had decided to leave that to the new administration to settle, and not put it in the Constitution.  In the end, the Constitution only said that the new government would repay debts from the Confederation Congress, and left silent the matter of state debts.

Ratification

The final article proclaimed that this new Constitution would be established once the conventions of nine states ratified it.  This was actually a pretty drastic step.  Remember that originally, the Convention was supposed to make recommendations to be approved by the Confederation Congress.  Such amendments under the Articles had to be unanimous. 

In this process, the delegates ignored the Confederation Congress entirely, and sent it to the states. It even bypassed state legislatures, calling for state conventions of the people.  They further required the effective support of only nine states, a two-thirds majority before the Constitution went into effect.  That was a lower standard that was even required for amendments to this constitution.

This process made clear that the Convention was not just recommending even radical changes to the Articles.  It was establishing an independent process to replace them without the consent of either the Confederation Congress or state legislatures.

Concluding the Convention

By early September the Convention delegates were exhausted from nearly four months of nonstop negotiating on this new document.  Up until the very end, there were arguments over various clauses.  On Saturday, September 8, the convention appointed a Committee of Style to draft the final version.  William Johnson of Connecticut served as the chair, with Alexander Hamilton, Gouverneur Morris, James Madison, and Rufus King also serving.

Morris did most of the actual drafting. Hw wrote the preamble beginning “We the people…” and made most of the final wording choices.  The Committee brought back a final document the following Wednesday.  Even at that point, after all the debate, the delegates argued for last minute changes.  The last significant one was to reduce the congressional override of a presidential veto from three-quarters to two-thirds.

The committee then printed copies for everyone the following day for a final review.  Many delegates still were not happy.  Elbridge Gerry, Edmund Randolph, and George Mason said they could not sign a document that lacked a bill of rights.  Delegates spent the rest of the week reviewing the final document to make sure that no one had snuck in any changes.

On Saturday, September 15, the convention gave its approval to the final wording.  The convention paid $30 to Jacob Shallus, an assistant clerk for the Pennsylvania State House, to draft and engross the final document.  The document was written out on four pages and was ready for signing on Monday the 17th.  Many delegates were still unhappy.  There was a question as to how many of them would sign the final version.

Benjamin Franklin was asked to give final remarks.  Franklin wrote out a speech, but was to sick to stand and address the delegates.  Instead, he handed his speech to James Wilson who read it for him.  Franklin conceded that the Constitution was not perfect and that he did not get everything he wanted.  But the compromises that they had made were the best they could produce as fallible humans.  

Franklin pointed out that any government would rely on the people who would soon administer the government to ensure it would work.  He hoped it would be well administered for years, and that it would be a long time before the people became so corrupted as to need a despotic government.  Delegates must rely on the people and the officials who would make up this new government to make it work.

Franklin ended by noting that he had raised his complaints about parts of the constitution during debate, but with the work done, he would support the final product and not make public anything that he thought should be different.  He urged the delegates to sign this imperfect document as the best that men could produce.

Gouverneur Morris called on all delegates to sign, simply as witnesses to the unanimous consent of the states present.  In the end, thirty-eight of forty one delegates signed.  Mason, Randolph, and Gerry still refused.  A thirty-ninth signature, that of John Dickinson had to leave the convention due to illness, but authorized fellow delegate George Read to sign on his behalf.

Delegates signed, grouped by states.  Alexander Hamilton wrote the State names at the bottom of the document.  With their work complete, the delegates went home.

Next week, we’ll see what the country thought as the people got their first look at this new document.

- - -

Next Episode 351 Ratification, First Steps

Previous Episode 349 Creating the Presidency

 Contact me via email at mtroy.history@gmail.com

 Follow the podcast on X (formerly Twitter) @AmRevPodcast

 Join the Facebook group, American Revolution Podcast 

 Join American Revolution Podcast on Quora 
 
Discuss the AmRev Podcast on Reddit

American Revolution Podcast Merch!

T-shirts, hoodies, mugs, pillows, totes, notebooks, wall art, and more.  Get your favorite American Revolution logo today.  Help support this podcast.  https://merch.amrevpodcast.com


American Revolution Podcast is distributed 100% free of charge. If you can chip in to help defray my costs, I'd appreciate whatever you can give.  Make a one time donation through my PayPal account. You may also donate via Venmo (@Michael-Troy-20).


Click here to see my Patreon Page
You can support the American Revolution Podcast as a Patreon subscriber.  This is an option making monthly pledges.  Patreon support will give you access to Podcast extras and help make the podcast a sustainable project.

An alternative to Patreon is SubscribeStar.  For anyone who has problems with Patreon, you can get the same benefits by subscribing at SubscribeStar.

Help Support this podcast on "BuyMeACoffee.com"


Visit the American Revolution Podcast Bookshop.  Support local bookstores and this podcast!





Signup for the AmRev Podcast Mail List

* indicates required

Further Reading

Websites

The Virginia Plan: https://www.senate.gov/civics/common/generic/Virginia_Plan_item.htm

The New Jersey Plan: https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/patexta.asp

The Constitutional Convention of 1787: A Revolution in Government https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/white-papers/the-constitutional-convention-of-1787-a-revolution-in-government

The Constitutional Convention of 1787: A Day by Day Account: https://www.nps.gov/inde/learn/historyculture/stories-constitutionalconvention.htm

Franklin closing speech to the convention: https://archive.csac.history.wisc.edu/assessments_64.pdf

Free eBooks
(from archive.org unless noted)

Secret Proceedings and Debates of the Convention Assembled at Philadelphia, in the Year 1787, Richmond; Wilbur Curtiss, 1839. 

Brant, Irving James Madison: Father of the Constitution, 1787-1800. Bobbs-Merrill Co. 1950 (borrow only). 

Donovan, Frank R. Mr. Madison’s Constitution: The Story Behind the Constitutional Convention, New York: Dodd, Mead & Co. 1965 (borrow only) 

Farrand, Max The Framing of the Constitution of the United States, Yale Univ. Press, 1913. 

Farrand, Max (ed) The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787Vol. 1Vol. 2, and Vol 3, Yale Univ. Press, 1911.  

Ford, Worthington, Chauncey The Federal Constitution in Virginia, 1787-1788. Cambridge: University Press, 1903. 

Jameson, J. Franklin Studies in the History of the Federal Convention of 1787, Washington: Government Printing Office, 1903. 

Madison, James Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787, Ohio Univ. Press, 1966. 

McMaster, John Bach (ed) Pennsylvania and the Federal Constitution: 1787-1788, Historical Society of Pennsylvania, 1888. 

Meigs, William M. The Growth of the Constitution in the Federal Convention of 1787, Philadelphia: J.B. Lippincott Co. 1900. 

Richardson, Hamilton P. The Journal of the Federal Convention of 1787 Analyzed, San Francisco: Murdock Press, 1899. 

Scott, James B. James Madison's notes of debates in the Federal convention of 1787, New York: Oxford Univ. Press, 1918. 

Books Worth Buying
(links to Amazon.com unless otherwise noted)*

Amar, Akhil Reed America’s Constitution: A Biography, Random House 2005. 

Beeman, Richard R. Plain, Honest Men: The Making of the American Constitution, Random House, 2009. 

Bowen, Catherine Drinker Miracle at Philadelphia: The Story of the Constitutional Convention, Little, Brown & Co. 1966 (borrow at archive.org).

Collier, Christopher Decision in Philadelphia: The Constitutional Convention of 1787, Random House, 1986 (borrow at archive.org).

Morris, Richard B. Witnesses at the Creation: Hamilton, Madison, Jay and the Constitution, Holt, Rinehart & Winston, 1985. 

Morton, Joseph Shapers of the Great Debate at the Constitutional Convention of 1787: A Biographical Dictionary, Greenwood, 2005.

Rossiter, Clinton 1787: The Grand Convention, Macmillan Co. 1966 (borrow on archive.org).

Smith, Page The Constitution: A Documentary and Narrative History, Morrow Quill, 1978. 

Stewart, David O. The Summer of 1787: The Men Who Invented the Constitution, Simon & Schuster, 2007. 

* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

 

Sunday, April 13, 2025

ARP349 Creating the Presidency, 1787

Over the last couple of weeks we’ve discussed how the Constitutional convention wanted the new US Congress to operate.  The Congress was by far the most important and powerful branch of government.  It was the only branch that existed above the state level under the Articles of Confederation.

The delegates, however, also recognized the need for an executive branch.  They had trouble trying to oversee the execution of their own laws under the Articles.  By the end of the war, the Confederation Congress was appointing secretaries to manage important components of the government.  Most delegates recognized the need to create a better structure to execute and enforce the laws.  All the states had some form of executive, which was the model that also existed in Britain.

Of course, in Britain, the executive branch was headed by the king.  No one at the convention, with the possible exception of Hamilton, wanted a king to rule over the United States.  So there was great debate on what an executive Branch would look like.  

Chief Executive or Executive Committee:

One question which the delegates debated was whether there should be a single chief executive or an executive committee.  Madison’s Virginia Plan had called for the creation of a single chief executive who would be appointed by Congress for a fixed term and that the executive could not serve a second term.  Paterson’s New Jersey Plan called for a group of executives to be chosen with similar restrictions.

James Wilson and Gouverneur Morris were most prominent in arguing for a unitary executive.  Having a committee subjected the executive to internal divisions which would create problems similar to a divided congress.  Former Governor John Rutledge also spoke in favor of a single chief executive.  

Proponents noted that every state had a single governor.  A single chief executive would have more accountability to Congress, would be more capable of secrecy, dispatch and decisive action, and would simply be most efficient.

There were those who had concerns about granting so much power to a single person.  So much of the convention’s debate centered around checks and balances that would prevent any single faction from gaining an upper hand.  Turning over so much power to a single person could thwart those protections and give an ambitious man a path toward becoming a tyrant.

While all states did have a governor, many of the executive functions were done by a governor’s council.  In the colonial era, while there were governors, many of them were absent or inactive, allowing local councils to perform many of the executive functions.  

Virginia Governor Edmund Randolph strongly opposed a unitary executive.  For him it came to close to monarchy.  George Mason similarly opposed it, calling the proposed presidency an elective monarchy.

For opponents, a plural executive created more checks and balances.  Randolph even suggested a three member executive council, with each member being drawn from different parts of the country in order to ensure no region of the country could dominate.

Despite these objections, the convention voted seven states to three in favor of a unitary executive.  New Jersey did not vote on the matter, which was decided even before its delegates proposed the New Jersey Plan.  Despite a minority’s efforts to reopen debate later, the majority considered the issue settled.  When, on July 17, a proposal was put forward to formalize the clause establishing a “National Executive” consisting “of a single person,” it was agreed to unanimously.

Opponents, however, conceding that point, argued that there should also be an executive council to constrain the president.  Some argued this council should have the power to vote on vetoes of congressional legislation.  The idea of creating a council was more divided.  On the same day in July when the convention voted in favor of a unitary executive.  It voted only 4-3 against creating an executive council.  Connecticut, Maryland, and Virginia supported the creation of a council.  Massachusetts, Delaware, North Carolina, and South Carolina voted it down.  Pennsylvania and Georgia had split delegations and could not vote.  New Jersey was absent.  The New York delegation had already gone home.

Selection of the Executive

The delegates also had to contend with how the executive would be selected.  Both the Virginia and the New Jersey plans suggested that the Congress select the executive.  This was how many states did it.  The state legislature would choose the governor after a legislative election.  This helped to ensure that the executive would be someone who would faithfully execute the laws as passed by the legislature.

Even in states that independently elected a governor, they usually had a governor’s council chosen by the legislature to ensure the executive would act in compliance with the legislature’s wishes.  The people at this time were especially dubious of an independent executive for fear that this person could easily turn into a monarch and a tyrant.  

Many delegates, however, favored an executive elected by the people.  James Wilson and James Madison both spoke passionately on the issue.  Many of the proponents were the same as those who had supported proportional representation in congress.  This new national government was supposed to be a government of the people, not of the states.  The direct election of the executive would be part of that.

Proponents of an elected executive noted that direct elections of governors in Massachusetts and Pennsylvania had led to capable and well respected leaders who had tended to respect the will of the people.  As long as there were other limitations on the executive, that would prevent any tendency toward tyranny.

These same proponents also noted that this was to be a government of checks and balances.  If the executive was truly to be a check on the legislature, then the executive could not be completely dependent on the legislature.

One of the biggest arguments against the direct election of an executive was that it was impractical.  There would be almost no leaders who were known nationwide.  Different states or regions would support local leaders, but none who could truly have the confidence of the entire nation.

One factor that sat in favor of an elected leader was sitting right there in the convention.  Pretty much everyone at the convention assumed that George Washington would become the first executive.  That fact had also probably influenced the decision to have a unitary executive.  It also encouraged the idea of a directly elected executive.  Washington was one of very few men who were known nationally and could be a favorite by voters everywhere.  But what happened after Washington?  He had gained notoriety through his war leadership.  How would future executives come to be known by the people in all regions?

During the first week of debate at the Convention, Wilson brought up the idea of dividing the country into electoral districts.  The people would vote for an elector. Then electors from all over the country would meet to select the executive.  This would keep the process separate from congress, and would prevent the executive from being so dependent on Congress.  At the time, the delegates were not happy with the idea, and voted it down, with only Pennsylvania and Maryland supporting the proposal.  The majority supported having the legislature choose the executive.

The delegates tabled the matter for about six weeks until July 17, the same day the convention agreed to a  unitary executive.  By that time the delegates had also agreed on a proportional house and a senate chosen by the states.

Once again, the debate seemed to come down to not wanting the executive to be chosen by the legislature, by also not thinking the people could coalesce around a single choice.  Congress also decided to remove the restriction that prevented the executive from being reelected.  If Congress chose the executive, then the executive would simply act to please Congress, and then Congress would re-elect him, thus effectively creating what could be a lifetime tenure.  Some delegates were ok with that, and even suggested making it a lifetime tenure, with congress having the ability to remove him for malfeasance.

Madison opposed the idea of having an executive that was completely dependent on congress to remain in office.  It went against his principles of check and balances.  The executive simply became subservient to congress.  Mason also opposed the idea, thinking that an executive who essentially had office for a lifetime would become a king and eventually evolve into a hereditary monarchy.

Some delegates suggested a third option.  Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts and Roger Sherman of Connecticut argued that the executive should be chosen by state legislatures or state governors.   That way, the executive would serve as a check on the abuse of power by Congress over the states.

Debate in late July turned back to the idea of having people select electors who would choose the executive.  Even at that point, there was no good consensus on how to do it.  By late August the Convention established a committee of detail to try to create a coherent system based on the many votes that had already been taken.  The committee’s report on August 24 proposed an election by the congress, but still left the details vague.

In early September, another committee took a stab at the issue, this time essentially punting on the selection entirely.  The committee proposed that each state select electors based on whatever the criteria that state wanted.  If they wanted the people to vote for electors, fine.  If they wanted the governor to appoint electors, that was fine too.  Each state would get electors equal to the state’s representation in Congress.  That meant that smaller states got more votes per capita since each state got two electoral votes for their Senators, but larger states would still have a greater say based on the number of Representatives that they had.

The electors would then meet at the nation’s capital and vote on the executive.  If no candidate received a majority of votes, the Senate would choose from the top five candidates in the electoral college.

This was a win for the small states since delegates believed that in most cases there would be no national consensus for the chief executive.  By letting the Senate make the selection, small states would have a much greater say over the office.

Those who wanted the people to elect the executive opposed this idea.  First, there was no guarantee that people would have a say in choosing electors since that was left up to each state. Secondly, the Senate was made up of people appointed by state government’s, meaning voters would be even more distant from influencing who would serve as chief executive.  Further the Senate was made up of only 26 people.  In a heavily divided race, an executive could win office with less than 10 votes of unelected politicians.  At the very least, the election should be in the House, which was directly elected by the people.  

Of course, the smaller states did not like that idea.  Election by the House meant that larger states would have a much greater say in choosing the executive.  Eventually, the two sides reached a compromise, proposed by Roger Sherman of Connecticut.  When the Electoral College failed to give a majority to a single candidate,  the House would vote for the executive instead of the Senate, but each state delegation in the House would only get one vote.  So smaller states would still have a much greater say in the selection.

Term Length and Term Limits

Because the Chief executive was an entirely new position, there were all sorts of debates on how long a term in office should be.  In the first week of deliberations, the convention agreed that the executive, selected by Congress, would serve a seven year term and would not be eligible for reelection.

The delegates, however, returned to this question several times.  Proponents of a longer term for the executive wanted a stronger executive that was not dependent on the legislature or anyone else to make decisions on behalf of the country.  Even seven years might not be long enough. Gouverneur Morris suggested that if an executive only had a few years in office, he might be more prone to go to war to win glory during his short time in office.  Others made suggestions for a longer term including 15 years.  A few, like Hamilton, supported an executive appointed for life.  This would allow him to look toward the long term needs of the nation without having to worry about disapproval or what he would do after leaving office.

Others, however, wanted to keep the executive on a short leash.  Some proposed short terms of two or three years, allowing the executive to serve multiple terms.  This would ensure that he would remain obedient to the wishes of Congress, or the people, at least if he wanted to keep his job.

In the end, the convention went back to the delegates original agreement.  In late July, they voted that the president would serve a single seven year term and could not be reelected.  This passed by a vote of six to three.

In August, the Committee of Detail, who was the first to decide that the executive should be called the “president” included the Convention’s decision that the president should serve a single seven year term.  Up until this time, the convention simply referred to him as the executive.   Then in August, the Committee on Unfinished Parts, which was supposed to fill in items where there was no consensus, changed the term to four years, and removed the bar against reelection.

It’s not clear who made this change, but several committee members did not like the seven year term.

Similarly, the Committee of Detail came up with the requirements that the President be at least 35 years old, a natural born citizen, and be a resident of the US for at least 21 years.  There seems to have been almost no debate at the convention on any of those qualifications.  The Convention agreed to all those requirements unanimously.  However about a week later, another committee reduced the residency requirement from 21 to 14 years, and no one complained about that either.  No one seemed to think these requirements were particularly controversial, and since it was near the end of the Convention, I suspect most delegates were getting tired of arguing about most matters.

Executive Powers

The Delegates also determined that the president should be the commander-in-chief of the army, navy, and state militia.  While Congress had the exclusive power to declare war, the president would be in command of the military.  During the Revolutionary war, there was no civilian commander in chief. George Washington, as head of the army, was given that role.  Since most delegates took for granted that George Washington would be the nation’s first president, it probably seemed natural to give him command of the military.

Much more debate was given to the idea of whether there should be any approval for a standing army.  After all, standing armies in time of peace had been considered part of the British tyranny that justified independence.  One delegate joked that a standing army was like an erection “an excellent assurance of domestic tranquility, but a dangerous temptation to foreign adventure.”

Elbridge Gerry proposed that any standing army be limited to two or three thousand troops.  Luther Martin and Roger Sherman expressed some agreement.  Although not noted in the minutes, stories afterward claimed that Washington commented in a loud whisper that perhaps the constitutions should also limit an invading army’s forces to the same number.  This obvious joke pointed out the obvious problem with placing an artificial limit on the size of the army.  Other delegates noted that the US should not be hamstrung during a time of build up to war and that a standing army also had the benefit of deterring an attack. In the end, the convention was silent on the matter, neither requiring nor prohibiting an army of any size.

The delegates also gave the president the power to appoint judges, ambassadors and other officers in the government.  Unless Congress gave power to appoint some offices on his own, the president would have to get the advice and consent of the Senate on all appointments.

There were debates over giving the president exclusive power on appointments.  There were also proposals to include the house in approvals.  Concerns over factionalism in the House caused that idea to fade quickly.  Most delegates wanted congress to have some say in appointments.  The Senate was seen as the more deliberative body, similar to the governor’s council in many states.  Those state councils often had power of approval, while the general assemblies did not.  Since that seemed to work at the state level that seemed workable  At one point, Madison suggested that appointment only require support  of one-third of the senate.  The idea was that the President should get his appointments unless there was an overwhelming majority against.  Others argued that the Senate should make appointments and the President would be given the power to veto appointments.  In the end, the presidential appointment with majority Senate approval won the day.

For treaties, the convention opted to keep the House out of the process entirely.  The need for confidentiality and careful deliberation for diplomatic matters meant most delegates thought the house was ill-suited.  The delegates did require a two-thirds vote in the Senate to approve all treaties.  The Articles of Confederation had required a super-majority for treaties.  Also, the recent fights over the treaty that John Jay had negotiated with Spain convinced many southern states that they needed to make sure there was a larger consensus, and that they did not get out-voted by the more numerous northern states.

Other than foreign policy matters, the convention defined very little for the president,other than to take care that the laws be faithfully executed and the commissioning of government officers.  It also stated that the president should provide information to Congress on the state of the union and make recommendations to them.

Finally, congress retained the power over the president by giving the House the power of impeachment and the Senate the power of removal by a two-thirds vote.  Originally, the Convention said the president could be removed for maladministration or neglect of duty.  Some members argued that there should be stronger reasons for removal, eventually settling on the language of high crimes and misdemeanors.

Next week, we turn to the creation of the courts, and other matters that the convention decided before finally wrapping up its business.

- - -

Next Episode 350 Signing the Constitution

Previous Episode 348 Creating Congress, 1787

 Contact me via email at mtroy.history@gmail.com

 Follow the podcast on X (formerly Twitter) @AmRevPodcast

 Join the Facebook group, American Revolution Podcast 

 Join American Revolution Podcast on Quora 
 
Discuss the AmRev Podcast on Reddit

American Revolution Podcast Merch!

T-shirts, hoodies, mugs, pillows, totes, notebooks, wall art, and more.  Get your favorite American Revolution logo today.  Help support this podcast.  https://merch.amrevpodcast.com


American Revolution Podcast is distributed 100% free of charge. If you can chip in to help defray my costs, I'd appreciate whatever you can give.  Make a one time donation through my PayPal account. You may also donate via Venmo (@Michael-Troy-20).


Click here to see my Patreon Page
You can support the American Revolution Podcast as a Patreon subscriber.  This is an option making monthly pledges.  Patreon support will give you access to Podcast extras and help make the podcast a sustainable project.

An alternative to Patreon is SubscribeStar.  For anyone who has problems with Patreon, you can get the same benefits by subscribing at SubscribeStar.

Help Support this podcast on "BuyMeACoffee.com"


Visit the American Revolution Podcast Bookshop.  Support local bookstores and this podcast!





Signup for the AmRev Podcast Mail List

* indicates required

Further Reading

Websites

Secret Proceedings and Debates of the Convention Assembled at Philadelphia, in the Year 1787, Richmond; Wilbur Curtiss, 1839. 

Brant, Irving James Madison: Father of the Constitution, 1787-1800. Bobbs-Merrill Co. 1950 (borrow only). 

Donovan, Frank R. Mr. Madison’s Constitution: The Story Behind the Constitutional Convention, New York: Dodd, Mead & Co. 1965 (borrow only) 

Farrand, Max The Framing of the Constitution of the United States, Yale Univ. Press, 1913. 

Farrand, Max (ed) The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787Vol. 1Vol. 2, and Vol 3, Yale Univ. Press, 1911.  

Ford, Worthington, Chauncey The Federal Constitution in Virginia, 1787-1788. Cambridge: University Press, 1903. 

Jameson, J. Franklin Studies in the History of the Federal Convention of 1787, Washington: Government Printing Office, 1903. 

Madison, James Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787, Ohio Univ. Press, 1966. 

McMaster, John Bach (ed) Pennsylvania and the Federal Constitution: 1787-1788, Historical Society of Pennsylvania, 1888. 

Meigs, William M. The Growth of the Constitution in the Federal Convention of 1787, Philadelphia: J.B. Lippincott Co. 1900. 

Richardson, Hamilton P. The Journal of the Federal Convention of 1787 Analyzed, San Francisco: Murdock Press, 1899. 

Scott, James B. James Madison's notes of debates in the Federal convention of 1787, New York: Oxford Univ. Press, 1918. 

Books Worth Buying
(links to Amazon.com unless otherwise noted)*

Amar, Akhil Reed America’s Constitution: A Biography, Random House 2005. 

Beeman, Richard R. Plain, Honest Men: The Making of the American Constitution, Random House, 2009. 

Bowen, Catherine Drinker Miracle at Philadelphia: The Story of the Constitutional Convention, Little, Brown & Co. 1966 (borrow at archive.org).

Collier, Christopher Decision in Philadelphia: The Constitutional Convention of 1787, Random House, 1986 (borrow at archive.org).

Morris, Richard B. Witnesses at the Creation: Hamilton, Madison, Jay and the Constitution, Holt, Rinehart & Winston, 1985. 

Rossiter, Clinton 1787: The Grand Convention, Macmillan Co. 1966 (borrow on archive.org).

Smith, Page The Constitution: A Documentary and Narrative History, Morrow Quill, 1978. 

Stewart, David O. The Summer of 1787: The Men Who Invented the Constitution, Simon & Schuster, 2007. 

* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.